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<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/index.html">wg-async-foundations</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html">characters</a></h3>

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<a name="228416109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228416109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228416109">(Mar 02 2021 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> -- you <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/27#issuecomment-784356140">commented</a> on the PR about ways to improve the startup developer persona:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>One thing that I feel could be improved is that "startup developer" persona. There's a lot of engineers working on services which are not giant orgs, and neither are they working in smaller startups building a single product. Either the "startup developer" persona should change to "service engineer" or there should be a separate persona. The concerns for both are fairly similar I think, in that they want to be able to deploy a rust based web service. Therefore, I think the "startup persona" should be expanded to include this.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Can you say a bit more? If their concerns are similar, then I think we likely don't need multiple characters. I meant for Alan to represent people who want to build something in Rust, but where performance only has to be "good enough", where ergonomics perhaps matter more.</p>
<p>I think another good example of people that might fit this persona are the engineers at 1Password, based on what they've told me anyway (I should add notes on that conversation to the repo).</p>



<a name="228416178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228416178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228416178">(Mar 02 2021 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm a bit torn: I like the characters having plenty of detail, but I don't want to have so much detail that they can't represent classes of people with similar concerns.</p>



<a name="228468288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228468288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228468288">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> what I was trying to with is the current character is bit constrained by the choice of specific technologies and scenarios mentioned. The problems that a JS dev might be solving at a startup might be the same one as someone at a team in a larger company might be. I think I agree with you that we want them to have a single character for a class of people. And to that end, I think just talking about the problem that they are trying to solve would be helpful.</p>
<p>For example, with Niklaus, Barbara and even Grace to a certain extent, the problem is forefront. I think if we change Alan's introduction to something along the lines of "Alan is a full stack developer who has been solving problems for customers across many companies..." would allow for a broader range of people to be able to "connect" with the character I suppose.</p>



<a name="228468700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228468700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228468700">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>that would be good</p>



<a name="228469464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228469464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228469464">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> do you want to take a stab at rewriting that bio?</p>



<a name="228469493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228469493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228469493">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I'll try and update it by tomorrow.</p>



<a name="228469512"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228469512" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228469512">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>nice!</p>



<a name="228474627"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474627" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474627">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> this might solve another problem</p>



<a name="228474634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474634">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been wondering where webassembly fits in</p>



<a name="228474652"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474652" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474652">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd rather not add a 5th character if we can avoid it</p>



<a name="228474673"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474673" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474673">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not convinced it's necessary</p>



<a name="228474694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474694">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think Alan might be a good fit there? He could be experimenting with some web assembly applications :)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474805">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Same, but you could argue that webassembly had different facets. On one hand it can fit into the frontend development ecosystem, but on the other it's also being used for running backend services and sandboxes.</p>



<a name="228474862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474862">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I was thinking that maybe some of those other applications would fit fine for Grace</p>



<a name="228474964"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228474964" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228474964">(Mar 02 2021 at 19:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think ideally the characters would be about people's incoming knowledge</p>



<a name="228476241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228476241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228476241">(Mar 02 2021 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we can talk about webassembly for both characters as it is applicable in both situations. They could be knowledgeable about webassembly even before coming to Rust, so I think it's fair to talk about it.</p>



<a name="228484541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228484541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228484541">(Mar 02 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree, it doesn't feel like a new character is needed here to me.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228486445" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Bhargav Voleti <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228486445">(Mar 02 2021 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, instead we could talk about webassembly in existing character stories where it might fit.</p>



<a name="228562936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228562936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228562936">(Mar 03 2021 at 09:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>So -- <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> or others -- I was just thinking that it may be worth considering a character with a Java background</p>



<a name="228562984"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228562984" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228562984">(Mar 03 2021 at 09:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if that really changes anything</p>



<a name="228562999"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228562999" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228562999">(Mar 03 2021 at 09:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it might :)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228680659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sean McArthur <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228680659">(Mar 03 2021 at 22:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>It occurs to me that a possible character is essentially "Grace's team members". Grace fits the tech lead who will investigate, experiment, and try to pick the best <em>technical</em> solution. And her team members are kinda "stuck" with her decision. They don't need to chose competing technologies, but need to learn whatever tech was chosen, and then probably write the bulk of the actual product using it.</p>



<a name="228702703"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228702703" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228702703">(Mar 04 2021 at 01:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've wondered about that, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="243965">@Sean McArthur</span> -- I think an important question to ask ourselves is where it changes things</p>



<a name="228702727"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228702727" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228702727">(Mar 04 2021 at 01:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we can look as we write their stories for those places where Grace's background (or anyone's background) is crucial</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228703023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228703023">(Mar 04 2021 at 01:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>as an example-- in the <a href="https://hackmd.io/K6oq7c9cQQC3LZvwVulDiA?edit">story that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224941">@Carl Lerche</span> and I were working on</a>, Grace knows how to find the socket addresses for  stuck connections using various operating system tools:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>She realizes that she doesn't have any tooling that can give her insight into what's going on. She starts to add lots of logging, attempting to tie log entries to specific connections. Using an operating system tool, she is able to identify the socket addresses for the hung connections, so she also includes the socket addresses in each log message. She can then grep the logs to find those that are associated with the hung connections. Of course, the logs only tell her what the connection managed to do successfully, they don't tell her why it stopped -- so she has to keep going back and adding more logs until she can narrow down the exact call that hangs.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I feel like more novice users might not have that knowledge.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228785220" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228785220">(Mar 04 2021 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm I realize that Alan's background story includes IoT:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Alan was recently hired at <code>fido.io</code>, a pioneering dog-food delivery business that uses a combination of deep learning and [IoT] to select the optimum dog food for your pet's health.</p>
</blockquote>



<a name="228785293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228785293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228785293">(Mar 04 2021 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>that was mostly me trying to be funny but could be a lead-in for embedded ;) but it's not really important I guess, it doesn't cover the full range of embedded devs somehow</p>



<a name="228829912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228829912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228829912">(Mar 04 2021 at 18:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm working on an update here</p>



<a name="228831188"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228831188" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228831188">(Mar 04 2021 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>revamped pr, still have to put more energy into laying out the schedule etc</p>



<a name="228831190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228831190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228831190">(Mar 04 2021 at 19:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/28">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/28</a></p>



<a name="228845362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/228845362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#228845362">(Mar 04 2021 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>merged for now</p>



<a name="229014039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229014039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229014039">(Mar 05 2021 at 19:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>btw <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> I went ahead and incorporated some of your suggestions into Alan as I was making other changes, would love to <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/characters.html#alan-the-full-stack-developer">hear what you think now</a></p>



<a name="229127480"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229127480" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229127480">(Mar 06 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I got some persona from people: over-comer of vendors shortcomings, fixer of broken stuff, explainer to people, info-sec leader, NOP sled operator</p>



<a name="229214700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214700">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been thinking about how the characters are defined and talked it over with some folks and I think I've got a new proposal that I'm a lot happier with</p>



<a name="229214751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214751">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>The idea is to separate the characters from specific projects -- they can even have multiple bios</p>



<a name="229214767"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214767" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214767">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>They should really represent specific priorities and interests</p>



<a name="229214809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214809">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>after some iteration, I've landed on this rough division:</p>



<a name="229214820"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214820" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214820">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li><strong>Alan</strong>: the experienced "full stack" developer, new to Rust<br>
    * <strong>Top priority</strong>: performance -- that's what he is not getting out of the languages he's using now<br>
    * <strong>Expectations</strong>: easy to use, strong ecosystem, great tooling</li>
<li><strong>Grace</strong>: the systems programming expert, new to Rust<br>
    * <strong>Top priority</strong>: memory safety -- that's what she is not getting from C/C++<br>
    * <strong>Expectations</strong>: able to do all the things she's used to from C/C++</li>
<li><strong>Niklaus</strong>: new programmer, coming from an unconventional background<br>
    * <strong>Top priority</strong>: accessibility -- he hasn't done much programming, can get frustrated easily, or blames his own lack of knowledge when he should be blaming poor tools<br>
    * <strong>Expectations</strong>: community -- the community enabled him to have early success, and he is excited to have it support him and him grow more</li>
<li><strong>Barbara</strong>: the experienced Rust engineer<br>
    * <strong>Top priority</strong>: overall productivity and long-term maintenance -- she loves Rust, and wants to see it extended to new areas; she has an existing code base to maintain<br>
    * <strong>Expectations</strong>: elegance and craftsmanship, fits well with Rust</li>
</ul>



<a name="229214878"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214878" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214878">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm writing up some narrative versions of these too</p>



<a name="229214881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214881">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g.,</p>
<h3>Niklaus: new programmer, coming from an unconventional background</h3>
<p>He's always been interested in programming but doesn't have experience with it. He's been working as a tech writer and decided to dip his toe in by opening PRs to immprove the documentation for one of the libraries he was playing with. The feedback was positive so he fixed a small bug. He's now considering getting involved in a deeper way.</p>



<a name="229214907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229214907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229214907">(Mar 07 2021 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this also covers <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="243965">@Sean McArthur</span>'s point that should be thinking also about experienced folks maintaining existing code bases (Barbara)</p>



<a name="229342106"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229342106" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229342106">(Mar 08 2021 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>(In case it wasn't obvious, I'm curious to hear what people think of this =)</p>



<a name="229346003"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229346003" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lucio Franco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229346003">(Mar 08 2021 at 18:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe I missed it but do we have some character for the type of person that comes from managed memory languages (like java and python) and are learning rust to get into systems programming? So unlike grace doesn't totally understand the benefit of memory safety. I guess Alan fits this but he seems like he is pretty broad.</p>



<a name="229350563"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229350563" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jeremiah Senkpiel <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229350563">(Mar 08 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if the typical "Alan"'s top priority is really perf. It could be correctness.</p>



<a name="229371239"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371239" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371239">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="319552">@Jeremiah Senkpiel</span> I was wondering about that too. I think it's a bit of both</p>



<a name="229371294"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371294" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371294">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was reading the <a href="https://www.rust-lang.org/static/pdfs/Rust-Tilde-Whitepaper.pdf">tilde white paper</a> from the webpage and I think this is the Alan I was thinking of</p>



<a name="229371336"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371336" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371336">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>he's definitely coming to Rust for performance/memory use, but memory safety is what's making that appealing; the TCO from C++ didn't compute before</p>



<a name="229371626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371626">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="207781">@Lucio Franco</span> I imagined Alan as coming from memory safe languages; I did list Java for Grace though since I think a lot of folks fit that profile too (and work in a mix of both, potentially).</p>



<a name="229371725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371725">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do also feel ok with having multiple bios, potentially.</p>



<a name="229371755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jeremiah Senkpiel <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371755">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe my team is more like the 'Alan' character than I initially thought</p>



<a name="229371938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371938">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>The Alan character also changed a bit</p>



<a name="229371984"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229371984" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229371984">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>But that's good to hear :)</p>



<a name="229372001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229372001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229372001">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I want to hear if people see themselves (or their teams) in those characters and, if not, why not.</p>



<a name="229372068"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229372068" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229372068">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see myself as kind of Grace-become-Barbara</p>



<a name="229372101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229372101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229372101">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>probably most of us on this channel are Barbara by now, in the sense of having a lot of rust experience :)</p>



<a name="229372537"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229372537" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jeremiah Senkpiel <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229372537">(Mar 08 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>We're all from memory-safe-at-runtime-aside-from-null languages, care about correctness and performance, but also need things to be approachable to non-Rust developers. I guess I'm becoming the Barbara character at this point too, though.</p>



<a name="229459835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229459835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229459835">(Mar 09 2021 at 11:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm totally not sure whether any of you are Barbara, at least not the after the modification I've PRed. <span aria-label="sweat smile" class="emoji emoji-1f605" role="img" title="sweat smile">:sweat_smile:</span></p>



<a name="229484763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229484763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229484763">(Mar 09 2021 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/32">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/32</a></p>



<a name="229484791"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229484791" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229484791">(Mar 09 2021 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="392749">@Daniel Egger</span> I'll check that out! I just pushed a PR with my changes, I'll have to see how to merge those!</p>



<a name="229485065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229485065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229485065">(Mar 09 2021 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Uhm, so Grace is the new Barbara? I'm starting to get confused. :D</p>



<a name="229485658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229485658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229485658">(Mar 09 2021 at 14:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Grace envied Barbara and plotted to take her place <span aria-label="upside down" class="emoji emoji-1f643" role="img" title="upside down">:upside_down:</span></p>



<a name="229497970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229497970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229497970">(Mar 09 2021 at 15:51)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="392749">@Daniel Egger</span> Yes, I mixed it up =)</p>



<a name="229498058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229498058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229498058">(Mar 09 2021 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I separated out <em>applications</em> from backgrounds, expectations, priorities</p>



<a name="229545336"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229545336" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229545336">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="392749">@Daniel Egger</span> is it ok if I just copy-and-paste some of your story into my PR?</p>



<a name="229545484"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229545484" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Daniel Egger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229545484">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229545336">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="392749">Daniel Egger</span> is it ok if I just copy-and-paste some of your story into my PR?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sure, please use it however you please. Glad you found something to like.</p>



<a name="229545515"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229545515" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229545515">(Mar 09 2021 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I will put some into Grace</p>



<a name="229555874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229555874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229555874">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> do you happen to be around? I want to merge <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/issues/32">rust-lang/wg-async-foundations#32</a> and I just wanted a quick check-in with you if you were around</p>



<a name="229556244"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229556244" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229556244">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>taking a quick look</p>



<a name="229557218"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229557218" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229557218">(Mar 09 2021 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> lgtm, definitely seems like an improvement</p>



<a name="229936198"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229936198" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229936198">(Mar 11 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I hear more and more about kotlin</p>



<a name="229936226"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229936226" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229936226">(Mar 11 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think Alan can have a third variant as a kotlin user</p>



<a name="229936305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229936305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229936305">(Mar 11 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering a bit about Go -- I'm not sure where Go fits in this taxonomy. I guess it's Alan.</p>



<a name="229939489"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/229939489" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sean McArthur <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#229939489">(Mar 11 2021 at 22:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Kotlin is another flavor of "better Java", it's a JVM language, so many similarities. It did however get special async <code>coroutine</code> language support that seems to be pretty nice, dunno how much that would influence someone as they learn async Rust.</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230009048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230009048">(Mar 12 2021 at 10:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="243965">@Sean McArthur</span> yeah, that was roughly what I was thinking of. I can definitely say that people like the scoped coroutine support in Kotlin and that it's worth looking at for inspiration</p>



<a name="230071969"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230071969" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthias247 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230071969">(Mar 12 2021 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> To be honest: I'm looking at inspiration from that for &gt; 1 year, have sunk a couple of hundred hours of private time into this, and I'm feeling like nobody is interested whenever mentioning it. The topic was mentioned both here as  well as on tokio extensively (there's thousands of lines of docs, proposals  and code). Seeing that it "might be worth looking into" is a bit disappointing, because it confirms my feeling that something doesn't really work well with the contribution model.</p>



<a name="230072039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230072039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Matthias247 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230072039">(Mar 12 2021 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Why are we looking for imaginative characters if even real characters have challenges carrying the message over?</p>



<a name="230074694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230074694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230074694">(Mar 12 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="204219">@Matthias247</span> I don't believe I wrote "might be worth looking into"</p>



<a name="230074711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230074711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230074711">(Mar 12 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would very much like to talk to you about it :)</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters/near/230079096" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/characters.html#230079096">(Mar 12 2021 at 18:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I was considering trying to draft a shiny future in this direction, and I had wanted to reach out to you about it, in fact, since I remember you mentioning it earlier)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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